Leah Segedie on the Reality About PFAS and Find out how to (Considerably) Keep away from Them


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Katie: Good day, and welcome to the wellness mama podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and wellnesse.com. That’s wellness with an E on the top. And I’m right here in the present day with Leah Segedie, who helps girls and mothers make safer shopper selections for his or her households. And he or she is the writer at mamavation.com. And on this episode, we discuss particularly about one thing referred to as PFAS, that are chemical substances which can be present in all types of family merchandise. We go deep on this in the present day, however we speak about what they’re, why they’re thought of ceaselessly chemical substances, how there are over 10,000 within the surroundings, and the way they have an effect on the physique in a whole lot of alternative ways. We speak about how testing may be very nuanced, and the way even pure and natural merchandise can have traces of those chemical substances, learn how to keep away from them with out going loopy and a lot extra, very, very fact-packed episode. I do know I discovered quite a bit. I hope you’ll too. So let’s be part of Leah. Leah, welcome again. How are you?


Leah: Hey, thanks for having me on Katie, so good to see you once more too. I by no means get to see you.


Katie: Likewise, I like that we do video now. For anyone listening who didn’t know, there’s video on YouTube that you just guys can really watch our faces whereas we discuss. I believe most individuals nonetheless pay attention on podcast apps, however it’s enjoyable to get to see your face. Really feel prefer it makes it extra private. And such as you mentioned, it’s been some time since we obtained to catch up. And we’re going to get to catch up in-depth on a really explicit problem. However earlier than we do, I’ve a notice in my present notes that you’ve got hip dysplasia and are mainly a human pretzel. So I’d simply love to listen to somewhat bit about this story first.


Leah: Okay, so there’s a genetic hip situation in my household. I’ve it, my mom has it. We don’t know additional than that as a result of my mom is adopted, however it’s hip dysplasia. Now, most individuals have heard of hip dysplasia as a result of they’ve a canine. And that canine has hip dysplasia, and it’s somewhat wiener canine or one thing. And so the folks that have heard about it are like, “Sure, my canine has that.” And no, I’m not a canine. However sure, that illness does occur in people. However there’s two varieties of folks that it’s actually widespread in, Native American Cherokee Indian, and the Sami, who’re in Norway, Finland, and Sweden, and so they’re the reindeer folks. And I completely come from a Nordic, so it’s completely coming from the Sami. And so they have a lot of it, it’s been written up in Nationwide Geographic and stuff, so you may Google it. However mainly, what it means is my hips come out of the socket, there’s about this a lot room in my socket that’s simply open. So I can simply pop it out of socket each time I would like.


Now, after I’m working, that’s unhealthy, as a result of it doesn’t really feel good. However the cool factor is, it makes me very limber. In the event you can think about me being pregnant, like 9 months pregnant, and with the ability to put my foot again right here after I’m stretching. Like private trainers freak out once they see this proper? And it’s completely cool for me. So I’m very versatile and I could make myself a pretzel by placing each of my ft right here. But when I do it, if I get the second up, I simply go ahead, so the one place I need to do it’s within the mattress. As a result of you realize, I don’t have the…I simply appear like a humorous toy after I try this. However it is rather fascinating and humorous to speak about. However sure, I can put my ft proper again right here and like a human pretzel. Completely.


Katie: That’s humorous. And one in all my…


Leah: If nobody has recognized me then now they’re simply gonna know that I’m Leah Segedie, the human pretzel, which I discover superb.


Katie: Effectively, and one in all my favourite journey recollections of all time was really visiting northern Finland and getting to satisfy the Sami tribe. They’re among the most fascinating folks I’ve ever met and completely lovely the way in which their way of life is, very totally different than mine in a really heat local weather. And it was so, so cool to see. In order that’s cool and you’ve got a tie to them as effectively.


Leah: Yeah, I’ve a tie them after which…however I’ve extra of my kin that I do know which can be in Sweden, however they’re extra within the metropolis now. And Bergen, Norway too, I’ve a whole lot of kin which can be in Bergen, which is basically cool to go to as a result of the fjords are simply superb. You must go there as soon as in your lifetime.


Katie: I’ll put it on the checklist. And I really feel like I may speak about that every one day lengthy. However we even have one other necessary matter that I believe shall be actually related to lots of people listening, even when they don’t notice it’s going to be so related to them. And I do know that you’ve got been doing a brilliant, tremendous, tremendous deep dive into this matter, which is why I used to be so excited to speak to you about them in the present day. So I’d say let’s begin actually, actually broad and simply outline the important thing time period that we’re going to speak quite a bit about in the present day, which is I hope I pronounced it proper, PFAS?


Leah: It’s referred to as, you may discuss with it as PFAS or PFAS. However PFAS might be what you’re going to listen to most individuals say P-F-A-S, so it’s simply an abbreviation and so they’re simply placing it collectively. So primarily, once we’re speaking about PFAS, we’re speaking about over ten thousand chemical substances and a chemical class. And so they all have fluorine and carbon in them of their bond. However you’ve heard of those chemical substances as a result of it’s all of the stain-resistant, waterproof, grease-proof chemical substances that we’ve been sort of swimming in for many years. Now, these chemical substances was regarded as protected, you realize, inert, like okay, however within the final couple a long time, we discovered that they’re persistent, which suggests they don’t go away. Scientists don’t even know what the half-life of those chemical substances are. That’s why they’re known as ceaselessly chemical substances. These ceaselessly chemical substances can final in your physique for a few years or a long time. They simply actually don’t know the extent of all of it and why as a result of there’s 10,000 of them and the unbiased scientists who had been coming within the backend making an attempt to see in the event that they’re protected, it’s been quite a bit and lot a whole lot of unhealthy information. So for those who’ve heard about carpet not having PFAS in it anymore, or clothes corporations popping out and, you realize, engaged on PFAS options, or if in case you have thrown out your Teflon cookware, that’s one other instance. These are all examples of PFAS chemical substances that we’ve had in our lives for many years. And now we perceive how extremely problematic they’re.


So what I’m doing proper now’s, and thru Mamavation, is basically making an attempt to construct up some consciousness round girls, in order that they know what to search for and know learn how to keep away from them. And the toughest a part of this case is it’s not possible to utterly keep away from them. You would need to stay…you couldn’t even go to, I imply, Iceland, or the place the polar bears are, you’ll nonetheless discover them there. So that you actually can’t keep away from them. That’s as a result of they’re persistent, and so they get all over the place. However what we are able to do is we are able to make educated choices and selections in our house, and decrease the quantity that we’re uncovered to, and most of all our youngsters are uncovered to as a result of that’s the place that is actually, actually necessary is the subsequent technology.


Katie: Yeah, I do know, we’re very aligned on that, and the significance of, in lots of areas, enhancing issues for our youngsters. What are among the problematic areas we see on the subject of these and well being? I do know, like, we’re nonetheless doing analysis on this and, such as you mentioned, a whole lot of this analysis is barely within the final couple of a long time. However what do we all know so far as how this impacts human well being?


Leah: So initially, it’s an androgen mimicker. So it goes into your physique and your physique really thinks it’s a hormone for males. It thinks it’s testosterone, so it thinks it’s androgen. So for boys, little boys and males, that is worse than for women, it’s actually unhealthy for women, however it’s worse for males. So simply give it some thought by way of that, you don’t want further testosterone in your physique. However for those who’re a person, and also you get further testosterone in your physique, your physique says, “Okay, accomplished, I’ve produced sufficient.” And so for a person, it brings down your testosterone, which is one thing that’s actually unhealthy for those who’re making an attempt to have a child, otherwise you’re making an attempt to breed, you realize. The opposite factor that it does, it’s actually problematic, that’s linked with every little thing else is it kills your immune system, primarily, it brings down your immunity so that you just can not struggle off illnesses.


Now, right here’s an instance of one thing of how that is taking place. Now, I don’t understand how many individuals are professional or anti-vaccine or no matter. However what I’ll say, and that is very, very, very sound science, that the extra PFAS you’ve gotten in your system, the much less seemingly vaccinations will work inside your physique as a result of it’s bringing down your immune system, your physique simply can’t do it. In order that’s among the stuff that they’re discovering, oh, inside the final three, 4 years is that they’re taking a look at infants, and the way infants reply. And I don’t know in the event that they’ve accomplished this in adults, however they’ve positively accomplished in youngsters. And so they know that the extra you’ve gotten in your physique, and keep in mind, this could occur in utero since you’re pregnant, the much less seemingly you may reply to one thing like a vaccine, or every other kind of treatment that’s like that, that’s speculated to carry up your immune system. In order that’s one factor you actually need to watch out about.


They’re additionally linking it to metabolism points and kind 2 diabetes. In order that they’re linking it to kind 2 diabetes, particularly in girls. So there’s a whole lot of girls strolling round who’re having points and it could have one thing to do with the quantity of PFAS that they’ve of their system. After which, in fact, cancers, there’s a whole lot of cancers that is linked to, like prostate most cancers and people sorts of issues, which is sensible for those who notice it really works like an artificial androgen in your physique. In order that’s sort of the totality of it. The issue that we’re actually, actually coping with is, you realize, what’s taking place to us can be taking place to the earth. It’s persistent on the market, it’s getting within the soil, it’s getting within the groundwater, it’s getting in our shopper merchandise, it’s getting in all kinds of issues.


And so to be aware that that is on the market, however not petrified, proper, since you don’t need to stress your self out to the quantity that you just’re making your self sick, proper? However on the planet of, these are chemical substances that I need to keep away from, it is a 10, and this is sort of a 3, PFAS is increased up there, it’s extra of an 8, 9, or 10 is what I’d take a look at first earlier than you determine some…I don’t know, for those who’re fearful about one thing like sodium benzoate in your shampoo versus PFAS in one thing, don’t even fear concerning the sodium benzoate. You already know what I imply? Like, these varieties of issues. That’s a much bigger class that you just simply need to keep away from.


Katie: Yeah. So many necessary factors I believe you’ve simply made. And I believe what I’d simply spotlight is whether or not individuals are in favor of vaccines or they’re not, I believe that’s its personal separate dialog, however the necessary similarity there’s that in each circumstances, whether or not you’re speaking pure immunity or vaccine immunity, you want a functioning immune system to create that impact. And so I really feel like that’s really a commonality. It’s really easy for that to turn out to be a polarizing problem. However in each circumstances, it’s like how can we assist the immune system in pure methods in both of these circumstances, and that’s one thing we are able to really all agree on. And so it is a piece of that puzzle. I consider a whole lot of similarities like plastic-type chemical substances, as an example, as effectively, these are very problematic, they’ve now saturated the planet, they’re storing in our our bodies, which additionally brings up the query, how if potential in any respect can we get these out of our physique as soon as we’ve been uncovered?


Leah: You’ll be able to’t. Effectively, right here’s the exhausting factor, it builds up. So it’s a kind of chemical substances that we don’t have any proof of something with the ability to take it out of our physique. That’s the exhausting half. Proper? And that’s absolutely the fact. If folks inform you the other, I don’t understand how supported that’s by the details, proper? So that is a kind of distinctive chemical substances that doesn’t function like different chemical substances, you realize, a whole lot of these nasty, persistent chemical substances are trapped in fats. So for those who can pull it out by means of the fats, then you may pull it out of the physique, that is repelled by fats. So it simply actually operates very otherwise in your physique, and the reply is they simply don’t know.


So what the best-case situation is correct now’s to keep away from it as a lot as you may, select merchandise that don’t have it, be very cautious of it while you’re pregnant, after which when your youngsters are about 5, and so up till that, that’s while you’re simply you realize, on the lookout for it, avoiding it. After that, you don’t need it, however in fact, you realize, hormone-disrupting chemical substances are worse throughout hormone modifications through the physique. So the worst time is prenatal. In order that’s when every little thing is altering and it right down to the second, the minute, you realize, issues obtained to simply align proper. The second half is while you’re out and it’s 5 years, you realize, your physique has like pure defenses it builds up doesn’t actually have that till you’re over 5.


Now, the third time in your life, for ladies particularly, and for males, is while you undergo the change, proper, you begin to turn out to be a lady otherwise you turn out to be a person, that’s a time when, as a mom, you need to begin to consider this, despite the fact that they don’t care, you continue to need to give it some thought, proper? After which in the direction of the top of your life, for ladies it’s while you undergo the change once more and also you cease with the ability to, you realize, have a child. And for males, I don’t know when males undergo, you realize, that change, somebody ought to inform me, however I’ve three boys, it could be good to know, really. However these are a very powerful occasions so that you can begin excited about these items, when these varieties of folks…you realize when you’ve gotten youngsters in the home.


Katie: Yeah, and I believe the steadiness, such as you mentioned is necessary, like keep away from it each time potential, however to not the purpose that it’s inflicting stress, which we additionally know is extraordinarily dangerous to well being. After which from there, I at all times consider, particularly once we’re speaking about chemical substances, we don’t really know learn how to get out of the physique. It’s like assist the pure detox pathways in any method potential. After which attempt to preserve a balanced stress degree and never be stressing about it past that. So I’m a giant fan of issues like sauna, simply fundamental hydration, consuming meals like inexperienced leafy greens that bind to extra phytoestrogens and different chemical substances within the physique.


Leah: And poop, proper? As a result of all of the unhealthy stuff comes out while you poop, you need to try this, proper? I’m speaking about poop and this, poop and PFAS is hilarious. However we don’t know if it comes…I imply, we simply…you realize, they haven’t accomplished research on that but. However I believe it’s as a result of they’re so overwhelmed proper now making an attempt to determine the ins and the outs of all these chemical substances. You had been saying one thing about plasticizers. Satirically, it’s additionally a plasticizer. As a result of there’s an entire class referred to as PTFE, which is on these Teflon pans, which is sort of like, which is a polymer. And sarcastically, you realize, after I do testing, there aren’t any assessments to search out all of those polymers. So after I’m testing for these chemical substances, and I’m on the lookout for over 10,000 of them, the sort of testing that I’m working is extra of a spot test. It’s trying to see if these chemical parts are there, it’s not telling you what particular PFAS it’s as a result of it’s not possible. There’s solely about 90 chemical substances you may check for at a very good business lab. Most of those labs that you could check for will solely be capable to check for possibly 16 to 30. However it’s in a college lab, they’ll in all probability discover about 150, however that’s it for compound testing and discovering out precisely what it’s.


The opposite choice is what you see a whole lot of NGOs doing and us doing is we search for fluorine in any product, proper? And so you then function one other check that pulls out the fluoride from the fluorine, which is the pure and leaves the artifical, and we search for one thing referred to as natural fluorine, which isn’t an exquisite factor. After I say natural by way of chemistry, it doesn’t imply the natural requirements. No, it sort of means the other, it means man-made. So I’m on the lookout for the man-made fluorine. Once you discover that, there’s sort of solely two choices. One is PFAS, which it’s very prone to be, the opposite one is fluorinated prescription drugs as a result of 25% of pharmaceutical merchandise are all fluorinated, so these are the 2 issues that I may very well be discovering. The testing that I function is a very excessive check. It seems at 10 components per million. Now, despite the fact that I’m saying components per million, and that’s actually tiny, it’s really a bigger quantity as a result of once they’re testing in water, they’re wanting all the way in which down within the components per trillion, which is sort of a drop in three Olympic measurement swimming pools, proper? And so mine could be possibly a drop in an everyday pool or one thing like that, proper? So we’re taking a look at far bigger, and we’re not wanting in water, we’re wanting in shopper merchandise, like private care, something that may be burned, primarily, as a result of that’s how the check is, burns issues, you realize. So if it might probably’t be burned, we are able to’t use that testing technique. Then there’s different issues we are able to take a look at.


However it’s additionally actually troublesome to search out, and you realize, the devils within the particulars, for those who can’t discover it and isolate it, then can they regulate it? I don’t know. In order that’s the place I really feel like I’m sort of standing within the center right here. I’m sending a whole lot of merchandise off to the lab and I’m beginning with merchandise that we’d buy that will be pure, you realize, sending these off first as a affirmation as a result of my viewers desires to know concerning the issues that they’re already buying first, after which they need to learn about every little thing else. And you’ll be sort of shocked, within the pure trade, how a lot of this chemical we’re going to search out. There’s a whole lot of causes behind that.


One of many causes is, like as an example, for those who’re shopping for natural meals, there’s nothing within the natural requirements to stop them from utilizing FDA-approved components in manufacturing. And so they don’t have any requirements behind that, and I simply confirmed that once more final week as a result of I used to be, you realize, emailing them, I’m like, “Oh, I can’t discover something within the requirements.” And so they’re like, “It’s not there.” And so they’ll say to me one thing like, “Effectively, it’s best to, you realize, stress the FDA to take these out of…you realize, as permitted oblique components, as a substitute of coming down on us.” And I’m like, “I believe it’s best to in all probability repair this within the requirements, I simply assume it’s best to.” However that’s simply my opinion.


So it may be in something, primarily. And for those who check out the FDA web site, on what’s permitted for a meals contact kind of substance, there’s a whole lot of polymers which can be permitted, polymeric PFAS. So which means these are PFAS chemical substances which can be made up of all these several types of monomers. So it’s prefer it’s a PFAS fabricated from PFAS, and in addition, however it turns into like a plastic, proper? So we’re going to see this, in all probability, I’m considering, since there’s so a lot of them which can be permitted by the FDA, that’s in all probability what we’d in all probability be seeing in meals, you realize, kind of producing. I’ve by no means been capable of isolate and discover it as a result of these assessments are simply not accessible. However I preserve seeing it in all types of merchandise. And I’m actually pleased to do that testing as a result of not solely do I need to know, however as soon as I began testing, everyone else wished to know as effectively. So it’s an ideal service that we’re capable of present for folks at Mamavation. I’m actually pleased to have the ability to do that.


Katie: I’m going to go line by line with some widespread merchandise and like, undergo what you discovered on the testing. However earlier than we get into the extra detailed half, I’d love to listen to what are among the widespread sources within the house surroundings that some folks listening…particularly lots of people listening are already extra naturally minded, like your viewers as effectively. What could be among the widespread sources and the way can we begin to keep away from it within the house?


Leah: So the primary place goes to be you’re going to eat it and drink it, that’s the place they nonetheless assume you’re getting the overwhelming majority of that is. A variety of this may be cookware, so if in case you have Teflon-based cookware or nonstick cookware in any respect, I’d keep away from that. Clearly, I do know you’ve obtained nice content material about that and I’ve obtained content material about that, that had been sort of shoving you guys off of nano-based cookware and nonstick cookware. In order that’s one place. You additionally need to search for it in your small kitchen home equipment, as a result of you will discover it in issues like air fryers, you’ll discover it in issues like toasters, and it’s not on the meals contact floor, it’s outdoors. And the loopy factor about that’s if it’s on the partitions on the surface, if it will get too scorching, it might probably disperse into that air so it’s nonetheless sort of a difficulty. So we’re proper now working by means of these merchandise for air fryers and all types of various issues. I’d simply say name up the corporate, look and double-check to ensure that they’re not including something to those merchandise on the surfaces. Positively not meals contact, meals contact could be the primary half, however that’s what I search for.


Meals packaging is one other problem, issues that we don’t consider like parchment paper. I discovered it in parchment paper. So there are some parchment papers which can be fabricated from silicone and there’s some parchment papers which can be fabricated from PFAS. And so they, a few of them typically they’ll inform you, however you bought to be trying to see which of them, and simply to sort of assist out your folks proper now as a result of I do know that you just’re going to ask me which of them are protected. If You Care, we examined that particular model, it’s the brown wrapper that appears sort of recycled, that one we didn’t discover something in. One other Finnish firm, which known as Gifbera, after which one other one referred to as Katbite, which I believe is Korean, these are all accessible on Amazon. So If You Care, Gifbera, Katbite, these we examined, and we didn’t discover something, however we did discover it in Reynolds. And we did discover it in Kirkland, so Costco. So these are meals packaging.


However right here’s like, a whole lot of occasions while you’re going to get this in your meals packaging, it’s going to be extra of a difficulty of I went out to eat, or I’m utilizing one thing that’s processed. So the reply is the extra you may prepare dinner from scratch at house, the extra you’re going to have the ability to do away with these contaminants with out even realizing about it as a result of a whole lot of occasions it has to do with the processing of the meals by some means, and the way these chemical substances, be in polymers or no matter, are stepping into every little thing. So the extra you may prepare dinner by yourself…once more, I believe that’s in all probability one thing that you just love to listen to, the extra you may prepare dinner utilizing elements that you realize about, the higher off you’re.


One other actually huge space is family mud. This isn’t one thing that you’d take into consideration. However you realize, your mud is then analyzed. Your family mud has been analyzed at a lab, not yours particularly, however different folks’s. And it incorporates a whole lot of fireplace retardants, phthalates, and PFAS. And that’s coming off of your electrical gear in your home. So your tv in all probability has some PFAS within the wiring, possibly has it someplace. And when that plastic will get scorching, a whole lot of these plastics have fireplace retardants and different varieties of issues inside them. Now, over time, and I imply, over years, because it will get scorching, they sort of emit into the air, and these particles are extremely magnetized in the direction of mud. In order that they keep on with the mud and so they fall, proper?


So how do you get this out of your home? I’d say simply mud, I hate that reply however that’s actually the reply. The extra you mud, you realize, the cleaner you retain your home, the much less seemingly your youngsters are going to be uncovered to this. Now, I can’t cease them from like, you realize, being on carpet in case you’ve gotten outdated carpeting with PFAS on it, there’s nothing I can do for that different than simply vacuum a ton, you realize, to get that stuff out of it, it is going to break down over time and be launched. So vacuum as a lot as you may, these varieties of issues. Get an air air purifier, among the finest air purifiers are on the market. Although I do know those that we suggest are in all probability additionally going to be pulling in PFAS as a result of in the event that they’re pulling within the mud, that’s the place it’s, proper? So that you need to do away with the mud.


Make-up and private care, it is a actually troublesome problem. Earlier this yr, they did an investigation not me, however the precise scientists, proper? And they also checked out over 300 typical, principally typical make-up merchandise and so they discovered it overwhelmingly in make-up, give it some thought like this, stays longer, waterproof, you realize what I’m saying? You need your make-up to remain in your face and never go wherever and the extra we’ve demanded that the extra they put in PFAS. So that you need to sort of search for issues that don’t have any claims about long-lasting, don’t have any claims about being waterproof.


I’d say we discovered about six or seven totally different manufacturers of make-up within the pure world that I didn’t discover, you realize, any natural fluorine on the ranges we’re on the lookout for. However most of even the pure magnificence merchandise, you realize, make-up manufacturers, it’s like…like, I used to be taking a look at a whole lot of issues, mascara and lip gloss so to talk as a result of I knew that these are like what everybody’s utilizing on daily basis, proper, lip gloss, after which if it’s basis, it’s like next-level dedication, proper? So we simply went within the first cross dedication, and in some manufacturers, we discovered it not of their mascara however discovered of their lip gloss or vice versa. So it was actually troublesome to sort of be capable to say this model or that model as a result of we needed to do a whole lot of testing to determine that out. So make-up I’d say, and different than simply, you realize, following me and what I’m testing there’s no different reply to make-up as a result of nobody’s placing that info on the market. Even the scientists who had been taking a look at it, they’re not likely like granting you the uncooked knowledge to have the ability to work out which one they examined however that’s why we did it.


One other factor is like water, look into your water. It is a actually huge deal as a result of for those who stay by a army base otherwise you stay by an airport that is actually necessary, army bases and airports have been utilizing firefighting foam to place out grease fires which have PFAS in them and it has seeped into the groundwater beneath and has contaminated a whole lot of groundwater by these bases. So for those who stay by an airport otherwise you stay by a army base, I’d simply exit and get a water air purifier regardless, don’t even wait. As a result of the reply is it’s in all probability going to be there and it is probably not a sort of PFAS that we are able to acknowledge simply but. You already know, as a result of that’s the opposite downside with water is, we’re not as much as testing in any respect. So I’d simply assume, you realize, that that’s how I’m working proper now’s I’m simply assuming, despite the fact that our water system doesn’t have something in it, it’s like, yeah, you solely examined 16 of them, you realize, there’s like 10,000 on the market, you realize, that’s how I really feel like there’s a giant gaping gap. So water, work on water.


Clothes is one other huge one, however the reply to clothes is we don’t know the reply behind dermal contact. So I’ve a whole lot of advisors who work on this and a few of them are working behind the scenes to creating strategies for testing. A few of them, you realize, they’re working at several types of phases in several types of methods with this chemical. However the one factor that all of them agreed on was we don’t know sufficient about dermal contact. We don’t know if one thing rubs up towards your pores and skin, and it’s a PFAS chemical, will it get in? How will it get in? How a lot we’ll get in? We don’t know.


And since we don’t know, we are able to’t make any statements about that. So the reply is we don’t know. However the place are you going to search out it? Something that’s stain proof, keep away from issues which can be stain proof, completely 100% as a result of that’s the place it’s going to be. It’s in a whole lot of jackets waterproof. We did an investigation on jackets, so for those who go to Mamavation…I want I may inform you each single one, however it’s very complicated on the market proper now to search out out what’s PFAS-free, after which what’s just a bit part of PFAS-free. A few of these corporations which can be producing clothes, aren’t wanting on the huge chemical class. They’re solely taking a look at this over right here, and so they say, “We’re freed from PFC.,” however they’re forgetting all this different stuff over right here, you realize.


And there’s some certifications like Bluesign, as an example. Bluesign licensed is a kind of certifications that may enable sure varieties of PFAS chemical substances within the certification and but they sort of make a declare that they’re PFAS-free. So it’s complicated for the buyer and the explanation it’s complicated for the buyer is the scientists have simply sort of gotten on the identical web page about the place this chemical is and what we’re going to think about as a part of the chemical. So I don’t need to say it’s all the companies’ faults, I’m saying that they’re doing what’s within the legislation, you realize, once they’re making these statements, however the statements are altering as a result of the science is altering. And because the science is altering typically the businesses are two, three years behind, you realize, the mantra, the way it’s described. And so I’m working into a whole lot of that with jackets, like play couches, play modular couches, you realize, something like that, that may have like a stain-proofing about it. So simply be looking for that.


Tents and outside gear. Oh, gosh, I can’t…my cousins in Norway are going to snigger at me, however there’s one model that we love a lot. And it’s obtained a J in it, I’ll put it in your notes, your present notes. It’s like a Swedish identify and I can’t pronounce it as a result of I don’t communicate Swedish. And it’s obtained a J in it and I’m gonna simply completely butcher it. However there’s a whole lot of European manufacturers that as a substitute of utilizing PFAS, like on their tents, as an example, they use beeswax and paraffin proprietarily put collectively and it does a really comparable or just about the identical factor. These merchandise are extra expensive, you realize, you’re not going to discover a low cost tent that’s PFAS-free with, you realize, extra pure…and I do know paraffin will not be pure, however like, you realize, it’s higher than PFAS. These varieties of mixtures which can be much less problematic to the surroundings in an affordable method but, hopefully the long run will change that.


Then additionally, you realize, it’s in automobile wax and surfboard wax, these varieties of issues, and carpet and flooring. We did a bamboo investigation, we checked out a bunch of various bamboo floorings and we solely discovered one which didn’t have detections out of like eight or 9. So I’ve been excited about this by way of what’s round us. You already know, for those who’re going to be doing flooring, as an example, you realize, we went after bamboo and we regarded particularly at bamboo as a result of why? I’m like, it’s cheaper, it doesn’t dent, you may stroll round together with your heels and so I used to be making an attempt to love, you realize, remedy all the issues after which we did discover one model. However it’s troublesome. It’s actually troublesome to keep away from it, you realize, grandstand overarching, eat out much less, mud extra, and prepare dinner from scratch as a lot as you may. These are the three issues that I’d say would in all probability do probably the most bang on your buck and simply look out for locations who…like for those who go to mamavation.com, we’ve accomplished an investigation on like a whole lot of issues, not every little thing but, however on a whole lot of issues. And that’s the…I’m making an attempt to reply that query, the place is it, how do I keep away from it? And I’m sort of going class by class to determine it out as a result of each class is basically difficult.


Katie: Yeah, that jogs my memory, within the labeling, like, we began…such as you mentioned, we’re seeing some which can be labeled as “freed from” sure ones of those, however it jogs my memory of when BPA turned well-known, after which it was like BPA-free. However these all had BPS or BPAF or different ones, that are as problematic, the place we’re now discovering, in some circumstances, worse. And so simply because there are some that label now doesn’t essentially imply, such as you mentioned, that they’re protected.


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And I do know out of your website, you’ve accomplished investigations into all of those several types of issues. And also you gave us a family overview simply now. However I’d like to undergo some others which can be particularly in all probability relevant to mothers. So I cringe to ask, however the first being, what about, like, athletic put on like yoga pants?


Leah: So yoga pants wasn’t as unhealthy, really. In order that was one of many higher ones. We examined about, I believe, 32 or 33, totally different yoga pants, athletic put on as a result of that was a query I had. I’m like yoga pants, you realize what I imply? I put on them actually on daily basis, it’s sort of like my outfit, it ought to be like a uniform. And I do know each day, I’m sporting yoga pants, some shirt that’s actually comfy, and my hair is in a very messy bun, I obtained a whole lot of hair, so this all goes up in a bun. So we checked out about 32 of them, we discovered 25% of these yoga pants had detectable fluorine within the crotch. Now, after I first began testing them, I used to be testing the knees, you’re not going to search out it within the knees. How do I do know? I examined to search out it. After which I assumed to myself, the place would I put it? And so I had the lab repeat a few them with the crotch, bam, that’s the place it was. So about 25%. Now, not one of the natural manufacturers, for those who look in…not one of the natural manufacturers that we had examined, yeah, all of them had non-detect at 10 components per million, so that’s protected.


We did a like a not our favourite, higher, and finest class of these 32. Those that we discovered detectable there within the prime of the what we’d not suggest, then there have been ones within the center, which had been artificial supplies so we didn’t discover something in them. So be at liberty to purchase them. After which for these of you who need the natural model that’s in the most effective on the very backside. Yeah, so we tried to sort of divide it in three for everybody to have the ability to determine that out as effectively. So this was not as unhealthy, however you’ll discover it within the crotch, which might be…it is perhaps comparable in different pants too if you concentrate on it, prefer it’s going to be within the crotch. Now, I don’t know is the reply to that. I could sooner or later, possibly begin testing underwear and swimsuits and stuff like that, however for those who…to learn about that, I don’t learn about these but as a result of I’ve been requested that query. So I’m simply going to inform you I don’t learn about some fits and underwear but. However interval underwear, I do know.


Katie: Effectively, that’s encouraging that there are these good choices accessible as a result of I used to be not going to be prepared to surrender my yoga pants. However that does result in different athletic put on. So let’s speak about sports activities bras after which, because you talked about it, additionally interval underwear.


Leah: Yeah, so sports activities bras are fairly problematic. We discovered…so you realize your sports activities bra, there’s just like the outer a part of it after which there’s the internal half. So the internal half is that, like, sort of pores and skin shade mesh that’s subsequent to your bra, which can be subsequent to your breast. We discovered detections in 65% of sports activities bras in that mesh space. And after I advised my advisors about this, a whole lot of them they had been pediatricians that had been, you realize, serving to me evaluate this one particular one, they had been involved and extra of our advisors had been involved as a result of that is the mesh that’s proper up towards your breasts. Now, right here’s the situation I’m considering of as a result of this was my life and nonetheless might be my life. You already know, you’re a brand new mother, proper, and your child goes down for a nap, and so what do you do? You run off and also you do a exercise or one thing like that as finest as you may and you realize you’ve obtained like 40 minutes to an hour, proper? So that you’re understanding, understanding, after which sweating up a storm and you bought your sports activities bra on after which, you hear the noise, proper, and also you’re like, “Shoot,” didn’t get the time, so that you didn’t have time for a bathe. So you then run upstairs, you go get the infant, and growth, breastfeed. That’s the situation I’m fearful about.


So in case you are a breastfeeding mom, please watch out and take a look at my investigation for the not our favourite, higher, and finest. We discovered them in 65% of those merchandise, it was not every little thing. It was exhausting due to the high-impact bras, there weren’t as many good high-impact bras, however one in all them that I did discover that I believe individuals are going to be enthusiastic about is Goal. Goal has really been doing a whole lot of work on PFAS and textiles and you can inform as a result of after I examined towards that, they got here out clear. So for those who’re a giant busted girl, which I’m, my women are fairly giant…In the event you’re a giant busted girl you don’t need, like, black eyes when you’re understanding, proper, Goal’s a kind of manufacturers. It’s not natural, clearly, it’s filled with artificial polyester and yada, yada, yada, however we didn’t discover detectable PFAS within the sports activities bras there. In order that they’re referred to as All In Movement or one thing like that, in order that was good. And typically I simply preserve testing till I discover one thing that I can put on, you realize, and that was a kind of points the place I simply saved testing. That was sports activities bras. In order that’s one you need to look on mamavation.com. In the event you go there, we’ve obtained all the assessments listed proper there on all of the manufacturers that we discovered.


Katie: What about interval underwear? That is after I personally don’t have any expertise with as a result of I’m a giant fan of the menstrual cup as a substitute for the sustainability, which I do know interval underwear are as effectively, however what did you discover when it got here to those?


Leah: It was fairly unhealthy really once we regarded into interval underwear, we had…I’m making an attempt to recollect what number of we examined, it was over 20. I believe we solely discovered six manufacturers with out detectable ranges. Yeah, solely six, and the toughest half the place there are some manufacturers that truly market themselves as PFAS-free. I’m not gonna say which model it’s however it’s your decision to have the ability to determine that out, you’ll go on their web site, and they’ll present you scientific testing on how they’ll show that they’re PFAS-free. However it’s important to have my eyes to know what you’re taking a look at. You take a look at that scientific examine, proper, that they despatched off to the lab, the detection degree is quite a bit increased than mine. So I check at 10 components per million. They had been testing at 50, so you realize what I imply, like, I can’t make any statements about that. However I’d say there’s some humorous enterprise occurring in that.


And the issue is…I, you realize, interviewed a whole lot of the CEOs that had the safer interval underwear. And primarily what’s taking place is what they mentioned to me is you’ve gotten lots of people on this trade that don’t actually have a whole lot of expertise with textiles. Like, they don’t know quite a bit about what they’re doing. They’re nice entrepreneurs, they’re nice, at a whole lot of different issues, however they don’t actually know quite a bit concerning the processing of textiles. And for those who don’t know, you don’t know what to say, you don’t know what to ask, after which she was additionally telling me that, she’s like, you will get Oeko-Tex material, so to talk, and ship it to the producer, after which the producer shall be like, “Oh, would you like waterproofing on that?” And so they know that for those who put that on it destroys every little thing, like all of the accreditations and all that stuff, however they provide it in any case. And so you realize, for those who’re somebody who doesn’t perceive the textile trade, you could fall into that class.


So what I discovered in interval underwear wasn’t ranges that regarded like…there was just a few manufacturers that had ranges that had been actually excessive, proper, I’d be like, “Whoa.” However then there have been different manufacturers that had ranges that had been low. And so while you take a look at that, it seems like extra of a contamination problem than it seems like an deliberately added problem. However I don’t know what, you realize, the distinction is when it’s proper up by your vagina. I simply don’t know, and no person is aware of. In order that’s why we had been capable of do the classes we had been and I imagine it was…it is perhaps seven now as a result of we preserve testing. And we preserve including to that report, you realize, each time we do discover one thing, and folks that ship me interval underwear need me to check it, simply if you wish to try this I can check stuff, simply preserve it in its authentic packaging. I simply don’t need you contaminating it. However yeah, we’ve had neighborhood members purchase extra interval underwear that they need, they ship it off to me after which we simply go check it within the lab simply to verify we all know out of all of the manufacturers that we are able to see. That’s not a great one.


Katie: Gotcha. I’ll be sure we hyperlink to those as effectively as a result of I do know you’ve written about all of those and other people can go search for the particular particulars. So for you guys listening, wellnessmama.fm could have all these hyperlinks. One other related one for mothers, what about ketchup? As a result of I do know for lots of youngsters, it is a favourite so as to add to a whole lot of stuff. So what about ketchup?


Leah: Ketchup was simply heartbreaking. Ketchup, the overwhelming majority of the ketchups that I examined, all had whole fluorine in it. Now, I wished to clarify to everyone that I did whole fluorine assessments on the overwhelming majority of those ketchup manufacturers. I didn’t do natural fluorine, however let me inform you sort of what I’ve been doing. I’ve despatched about 350 issues off to the lab over the past 2 years, a whole lot of testing. So that provides you an thought of how a lot testing I’ve accomplished. And I’d say 80% of that testing, we’ve accomplished natural fluorine on. And after I first began, I did whole fluorine. So I wasn’t as savvy as I’m now to know concerning the distinction between the pure fluorine and the natural fluorine, which is artificial, and also you wanted to separate that. And so, you realize, my scientific advisors got here in and helped me with that after which we began, so ketchup is an older one.


However we discovered a ton of whole fluorine in ketchup, besides for 2 manufacturers. We didn’t discover it in Heinz, and that shocked me. So I used to be like, right here’s the common Heinz within the glass bottle, nothing, within the plastic bottle, nothing, within the little ketchup packets, nothing. We didn’t discover it, you realize, in any Heinz product. After which we didn’t discover it in 365 Complete Meals Natural Ketchup. So it made me assume that that is perhaps white-labeled, possibly white-labeled Heinz ketchup, have you learnt what I’m saying? However then each different ketchup that we examined, we discovered detectable ranges, and a whole lot of them had been actually near 10. So it was like they had been proper there, proper?


So right here’s the reply to that, of all the issues that I’ve despatched off to the lab, they’ve been ready…and so they do whole fluorine on every little thing, however then we run one other check and it’s a check for fluoride, proper? And what they do is that they search for fluoride after which they’re capable of do a calculation to deduct the whole fluorine quantity from the fluoride quantity, and that’s natural fluorine, so that they try this calculation for you. I’ve by no means seen, not potential, however I’ve simply by no means seen fluoride, greater than two, possibly three components per million. You already know, so a whole lot of manufacturers will need to say, in the event that they need to say it’s whole fluorine, I’ve not discovered that, you realize, fluoride to be a giant factor and something, you realize, I believe they need to assume that it’s however it’s within the stuff that I’ve examined, we’ve not. I did ship two of these manufacturers as a result of two manufacturers folks had been actually, actually…they actually wished to learn about.


And that was Primal and Annie’s. And I despatched Annie’s and Primal out for natural fluorine testing after we put this up, and so they had been just about the identical quantity. So I believe that we’re discovering a whole lot of indications. That’s the one the place I’ve to say learn it, however perceive the testing isn’t full. And I do plan on updating that specific investigation, including extra manufacturers, and doing the entire shebang, it’s simply in all probability not going to be till subsequent yr someday, proper? And I need to give these manufacturers a while to work on it. So I do know a whole lot of them do learn about my testing and whether or not…I don’t know in the event that they’re making any strikes, as a result of they haven’t come to me and mentioned they’re making any strikes. In order that’s unlucky, however I’ll say in different manufacturers…or different industries, there’s manufacturers making some fairly hefty strikes right here.


Katie: So, to be continued, and I’ll put hyperlinks to the present ones so folks can have these as a place to begin. And I do know that there’s extra to come back in different classes as effectively. So folks can keep updated with you to maintain a watch out for that. It additionally makes me curious if it’s potential to get folks examined for these compounds. And I additionally marvel like, is there even a…for those who’re going to weigh the chance and advantages, is it even price doing? We don’t know learn how to get them out of the physique and we all know it’s good to keep away from them. Like, is it price testing if it’s even potential? Or is it higher simply to know they’re unhealthy and keep away from them?


Leah: So I want I’d have accomplished that after I didn’t end that query for you. I’ve a check downstairs, there’s a model new check that got here out. I believe it’s referred to as Empower FX. So I’m going to must double test on that. However there’s a model new check the place you may prick your finger and ship it to a lab. Now, it is a huge large deal as a result of it’s not costly and it’s accessible to everyone. So let me offer you some background. So I wished to do a physique burden, you realize, scientific examine. And I had a whole lot of scientists concerned and we sort of talked about it. And what we realized was, it was near not possible to do that as a result of your physique doesn’t launch it. So, you realize, it’s not like with polyphenols and, you realize, you wait every week later and also you simply don’t eat them or put them into your physique, they’ll be much less. That’s not the case of PFAS. So it’s actually exhausting to check in your physique, actually, actually troublesome to do these comparisons, so we ended up not doing it.


At that time, we had been wanting right into a lab that was about $1,000 a check. Oh, yeah, loopy. So I’ll inform you my pleasure when I discovered a model who’s doing this for $250. And also you’re doing it at house. What we had been going to look into was sending folks to a draw lab after which sending it off to a lab in Canada. And prefer it was all of this, you realize, strategic, loopy stuff that we needed to do. However now there’s a firm, and I need to say Empower FX, and we’ll hyperlink that down beneath. However they partnered with Eurofins and Eurofins is a humongous $6 billion lab all over the world. So it’s a very…that’s an ideal partnership. And so Eurofins is the accomplice on this and so they’re producing these little check kits. So you may check your self, it’s somewhat drip of blood, ship it off, and I imagine they’re testing for between 16 to 30 totally different PFAS, however the most typical ones that you just’re going to search out in water.


Katie: Good to know, I’ll put hyperlinks to that as effectively if it’s in your website, or I’ll get that information from you for people who find themselves…


Leah: It’s not but.


Katie: Okay.


Leah: You’ve obtained it first.


Katie: How thrilling. And as I anticipated, our time, in fact, flew by as a result of we at all times have such enjoyable conversations.


Leah: How has it been 45 minutes? Oh my gosh.


Katie: So we’ll simply must do extra rounds of this as increasingly more investigations come out. However simply on the finish, I like to ask if there’s any parting recommendation you need to give to our listeners in the present day, may very well be associated to this or one thing completely unrelated to all of the mothers listening?


Leah: Oh, you realize, by way of these things, I’d say don’t sweat the small stuff, proper? I imply, I’ve been doing toxic-free for seven years now, possibly eight. And that’s one of many issues that I’ve discovered, you realize, I need to know what absolutely the worst issues are and I’ll keep away from these. And all the different issues, I’ll primarily based on my emotional wants at that second, proper? And so, by way of like, while you’re excited about issues, don’t freak out about one thing you employ as soon as a month, proper? What you need to take a look at are the massive dailies, proper, day by day exposures. So don’t sweat the small stuff by way of, you realize, don’t freak out over some factor that you just’re going to be consuming, you realize, or consuming as soon as a month. So go off to your buddy’s home, eat the pizza, and drink, and the cake and, you realize, take pleasure in your self. As a result of the stress that you could placed on folks primarily based on being afraid of all these things, I believe, will be worse on you total than I believe the precise chemical substances themselves and that’s what I’ve discovered over time.


And so defend your area, defend your soul, so to talk, from being too afraid. I believe that there’s a distinction between having a wholesome concern of one thing that’s harmful, you realize what I’m saying, and avoiding that since you’re good. And likewise stepping into the world of it’d being like a disordered considering course of, you realize, the disordered considering means of every little thing is poisonous will not be a great place so that you can be. I would like you to take pleasure in your life. And you realize, observe folks like Katie and I for, you realize, directions on what to do after which simply let it go. You already know, that’s my recommendation is, you realize, management what you bought within the house, exit and discover the world and revel in your self, and take a look at to not let your craziness sink into different locations is my finest recommendation.


After which simply, you realize, attempt to keep abreast of this, however you realize, that is a kind of points the place individuals are not likely contacting their elected officers about this. And I do know there’s lots of people particularly in like Republican districts and stuff like that, they’re not listening to sufficient from you, as a result of they’d be doing extra in the event that they heard from you. And I actually really feel like for lots of girls who’re dwelling in Republic, congressional districts and stuff like that, name them, allow them to know you’re involved about this. Allow them to know that you just care, and also you care about them, have you learnt what I’m saying? In the event you’re voting for them, and that is your problem, ensure that they know that that is necessary to them. As a result of I used to work for elected officers a few years in the past and I’ll say that when the ladies begin calling up, and once they begin pushing and honking on the doorways, they obtained their little strollers and stuff, you realize you’re in bother. It’s the senior residents and the mothers and also you don’t need to piss off both of these teams. However you realize, that is simply one thing that your elected officers want to listen to extra from you on as a result of there’s a whole lot of states and after I say quite a bit, I imply a whole lot of states proper now which can be contemplating like 200 items of laws on PFAS. They should hear from you.


Katie: Yeah, I’ve mentioned that so many occasions on this podcast that mothers are such a drive of nature and that widespread coverage occurs when the typical mother modifications her thoughts and will get concerned and that’s on so many various ranges. And I’ve seen it on a neighborhood degree. Really, the place I used to stay, it was fascinating, on this state, homebirth was technically not authorized for some time, and a bunch of mothers I do know lobbied and obtained it modified. However I believe it doesn’t must be…I believe we frequently don’t do it as a result of we predict it must be this large quantity, this large groundswell, it really doesn’t as a result of I additionally used to web page for representatives and it doesn’t take that many calls and letters earlier than they listen. So I’d say don’t underestimate…particularly on stuff like this that pertains to our youngsters, don’t underestimate your energy to alter that. And likewise to echo your different recommendation, be careful for what you may but in addition notice the physique is good and adaptable and designed to heal and keep away from the worst of the worst, however don’t let it rule your life or turn out to be tense. And that applies to meals, that applies to what we work together with in our day by day lives, and provides your self some grace on the finish of the day too.


Leah: Love you, lady. You’re so nice at summarizing my level.


Katie: Proper again at you, and thanks for the time in the present day. It’s at all times, in fact, so enjoyable to get to talk with you. Like I mentioned, we’ll do it once more as increasingly more information turns into accessible. However thanks for being right here.


Leah: In fact. It’s my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Katie.


Katie: And thanks, as at all times, to all of you for listening and sharing your Most worthy sources, your time, your vitality and your consideration with us in the present day. We’re each so grateful that you just did and I hope that you’ll be part of me once more on the subsequent episode of “The Wellness Mama Podcast.”


In the event you’re having fun with these interviews, would you please take two minutes to depart a ranking or evaluate on iTunes for me? Doing this helps extra folks to search out the podcast, which suggests much more mothers and households may gain advantage from the data. I actually admire your time, and thanks as at all times for listening.

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